The Network
The Network
Episode 82 - Manifesting The Vision
Prepare to have your perspectives on education transformed! Through our latest podcast episode, we're bringing you groundbreaking insights and lively discussions from the ASU+GSV Summit and LAUNCH in Brookfield, WI. Tag along with hosts Allison Koelzer Nelson, Nate Clayberg, and Alisa Morse, as we delve into the revolution of student-centered learning. Discover how AI is not the foe but the ally of educators, with Allison advocating for an informed adoption in classrooms. Feel the ground shift beneath your feet as Nate redefines assessment, aligning it seamlessly with our hands-on learning ethos. We're not just talking about the next steps in education; we're walking them, right alongside the passionate CAPS education pioneers at the forefront of this exciting journey.
Get ready to be inspired by the students from LAUNCH. These brilliant young minds are showcasing the undeniable advantages of early career exploration, proving that it's not just about textbook knowledge but real-world skills that shape their futures. As we discuss the potential of internships and company-student partnerships, it becomes clear that these initiatives are more than just resume builders—they're life changers.
The Network is all about discovering the CAPS Model. The CAPS Network is a 501(c)3 supporting over 100 programs, in 21 states and 4 countries. CAPS reimagines education to be a learner centered, profession based experience that catapults young people into passion and purpose. CAPS is going where students lead.
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Twitter: @capsnet
LinkedIn: CAPS Network
Facebook: CAPS Network
Instagram: @capsnetwork
Hey everyone, welcome to the Network, the podcast where normally Corey Moan talks about the Network, the podcast where normally Corey Moan talks about all things kind of career-connected learning within the CAPS ecosystem and the broader education ecosystem. I am Elisa Morris, the K-12 director of the CAPS Network, and I am here with two of my teammates, allison and Nate. They're going to introduce themselves in a second, but we're bringing you a special episode from the road. So, nate, allison, give us a quick intro, remind us who you are, and then we'll get moving. I'm Allison.
Allison Koelzer Nelson:Kelser-Nelson. I'm our K-12 liaison with CAPS Network and I'm in charge of our rural initiative.
Nate Clayberg:I'm Nate Klaver, business industry director, engaging all of our programs with our. The key to our program, professional-based learning, is working with industry and clients.
Alisa Morse:Awesome, I'm so glad that the three of us got to sit down for a minute to talk, because we are actually in San Diego right now San Diego, California at the ASU GSB Summit, which is probably the largest education conference in the world, and there's lots of really interesting cool conversations happening, great panels, lots to wrap our brains around. And while we were here, I was reminded of a student conversation that I had just about six months ago around what the future of education really could look like, and it felt I'm so glad it reminded me of that, because what I'm hearing a lot right now is conversations not just about, like, what's next in education, but what the dream could be like, the bigger, broader scope of dream, and students are at the center of that. So we wanted to bring you a special episode on the road that just kind of shared a little bit about what we're hearing. So, Allison, do you want to kick us off with what you're hearing? What conversations have interested you so far?
Allison Koelzer Nelson:I'd love to. It's my first time here, so lots of big takeaways from being at a very validating conference of this size and I already used the word but what I've been hearing from a lot of our folks from the CAPS network that are here, different programs is that they feel really validated being in the room and a lot of these panel discussions. Some of the things that these experts or these business and industry, these ed tech folks are recommending are things that we're already doing. So I just want to shout out to you, our folks, you guys are on the brink of innovation. You're doing things that people think is impossible to do and you're doing it really well. So just number one takeaway is that I think we all feel really validated and we want to share that validation with you that what you're doing is innovative, it matters, and that we're being looked at by different national and international models as an example of how to do this student-centered work.
Allison Koelzer Nelson:My second takeaway is that there are so many conversations happening about AI. It's been a year since ChatGBT launched and, coming into the conference, I have some perspective of how I'm utilizing it in my own work and I've caught these different waves about how we really do need to be talking about it for our students. I've heard from different directors across the network of how they're utilizing it, but, to be honest, I know now that I barely scratched the surface and I have two things that I want to share with folks. Number one take the fear that you might have and turn it into this seeking of knowledge about it. Learn as much as you can about AI for your specific role, for the things that you're really good at. How can it help you do those better and learn what's wrong with it?
Allison Koelzer Nelson:We need people to know what the flaws are, and the more time you spend with it, the more ability you're going to have to then translate that to your workflow as an educator or as an administrator, and it just eliminates your fear around it replacing you. To be honest, I've heard that again and again. Lean into the knowledge. And then the second piece is just there's this really desperate need for big thinkers and folks that are helping to lead students, to give them access to it and to help guide them to use it responsibly. So I feel like this is going to be something I'm thinking on that Elisa and I will be working on together, related to our student media agency and otherwise. How do we get students access to the right program so that they can use it in a safe and responsible way, and what that looks like, and just build from there? So I'm learning a lot. I feel like my mind is exploding, but I'm really grateful to be here.
Alisa Morse:Yeah, it is. I mean, I want to echo something that Allison just mentioned, that with this idea of, like, what AI is going to do, we all know it's here, we're all dealing with it, we're grappling with it, Something we just heard in a session that all three of us were sitting in. We just heard in a session that all three of us were sitting in, um, the superintendent in Tacoma schools, um, made mention like it, the fact that AI is here and our students are using it. We don't have to be fearful of it. We just have to figure out how we will continue um to support students' education and and and what I love about what he kind of said. He said you know it's AI.
Alisa Morse:You can start writing essays with AI, right, Like chat GBD can write your essay for you. But then what is? Assessment becomes performative, right. Assessment becomes let's have a conversation about it, and what I love about that is it becomes so much more authentic in real world, because we're not, unless you're a researcher, you're not really writing papers for the rest of your life, and so that felt very true to CAPS too, because what we do is actually doing, not necessarily just the writing about or the assessment taking of. So I'm really glad you mentioned that. Nate, what are you picking?
Nate Clayberg:up. Well, I'm going to follow up on that. And that was the same comment I was thinking from the superintendent at Tacoma, washington, which comes back to. Unfortunately, as you all know, I'm a quasi educator, but not really, I guess, so I get frustrated with some of these things sometimes in this world, coming from an economic development background.
Nate Clayberg:But he was referencing basically, I think when there's change within a classroom or a school, there's fear that comes because we all know what the process is and getting through and whether there's guidelines from the state or a school board or whatever. And this is how we do things and we're going to change things and it gets people very uncomfortable. And he was basically saying basically learn to deal with it. We're not, it's not going away, don't? We're not going to do whatever. And I was sitting there thinking in my mind how many schools have blocked chat, gbt or BARD or whatever else is out there? I don't think they're calling it BARD anymore, but they just are resistant. You can't get on it like it's an adult site you're not supposed to be on, you know instead of a resource.
Nate Clayberg:So how do we advocate to do that but also empower teachers to think that what students are going to learn from this because, like you said, they're doing it anyway? Um, you know, how do you? How do we get the teachers and educators more informed with what the advocacy or the advantage of it is, instead of what the negatives can be?
Nate Clayberg:and of course, I think in education it's always about, well, we can't do that, you know we might get in trouble, or it's, it's, or it's not going to happen, or it's wrong or whatever. Well, how do we utilize it for the next step? So, going from that, this is my second time coming to this conference and Alice and I was in your shoes last year going what is this place? You know, with all the ed tech stuff going on, ai was just kind of coming afloat a year ago and now it's, I would say I feel like 70% of the topics are around AI because it's hot.
Alisa Morse:Ai hijacked! ChatGPT, hijacked everything last year.
Nate Clayberg:Yeah.
Alisa Morse:Like, even if we were talking about like something totally not technology related, it just hijacked it completely.
Nate Clayberg:But you know ChatGPT came out and you know everybody calls, I think, any AI, now ChatGPT. But how quickly others came out, I don't think people think much about. Well, that stuff was already out there. It's not like people quickly turn these things overnight it was now okay. We need to tell everybody else we're doing because ChatGPT is already out there and they're losing their market share when it comes to that.
Nate Clayberg:But this year what I've noticed at least, especially what I've advocated for in conferences like this and the Aurora Symposium or you name it across the country, for in conferences like this and the Aurora Symposium or you name it across the country is I'm hearing more talk about the workforce impact, of whether it's education, technology products or pathways or whatever.
Nate Clayberg:And I think, unfortunately, like the session we were in Corey Moen was in this morning and the one we were at today, it wasn't much about AI or ed tech or anything like that. It was about real experiences that students are actually having and the room has educators in it, but it doesn't have the investors in it. It doesn't have some of the other players in this ecosystem today that are just, I feel, like scrounging for investment or dollars or whatever. But I think we forget Many, many people in this conference. I feel like don't really know what they're really supporting. You know when it comes to who we're serving with our students and our communities and our schools and things like that. So you know hearing pathways, I mean workforce. So I was in a session that the Yaz Prize people had with uh Aaron Furman and uncommon construction out of new Orleans.
Allison Koelzer Nelson:Yeah.
Nate Clayberg:And he gave us four shout outs in that one session. Uh, about caps.
Alisa Morse:So Corey and I are kind of have an unofficial count of how many speaker uh speaker we're in the teens, if not twenties I feel like you know, it's like we're getting exposure by not even being on the stage, you know kind of hijacking it this last session we were in alone was just like four different shout outs, I think, for the rural initiative, the agency's initiative, the work that we've been doing just in as caps people you know to start with. So, um, that that's been. My big takeaway is just how much kind of echoing yours, alison, of like how much we're already doing the work that people are talking about here and trying to figure out, which is really cool, but also how not only are we doing the work but we are continuing to innovate on the work. Right, it's not enough just to say okay, we're entering into pathways, we're not just entering into workforce readiness, we're actually doing those things, but then also figuring out what comes next, how do we improve it, how do we make it better, how do we make it more accessible and equitable? I mean, I think that's also a really big topic right now is how do we make sure that workforce readiness and career-connected learning isn't just for suburban kids, it's for kids out in rural communities. That the head of schools in Indiana actually just in this last session was saying you know, they're working with a rural school that has literally only one employer and that is the school district, and so how does that that community do workforce readiness and career connected learning, um, and so, yeah, for me, I'm just kind of absorbing all these scenarios and things that it's just a nice reminder to say, okay, it's not enough to to be doing the thing. We also have to be iterating and and taking the next step on what we're doing.
Alisa Morse:Yeah, um, so cool. Thanks for those reflections. I think, um one of the reasons I wanted to make sure that we came to you all, um, our audience from ASU GSB live, um, I mean, I'm sure you can hear the background noise. There's a little bit going on around us. You know there are 7,000, there are 7,000 people here. Consider yourself immersed with us.
Max:Right.
Alisa Morse:Um, but it reminded me, like I mentioned, about a conversation that I had with three young men, um, from the launch program in Wisconsin. Um, because they and this, I had this conversation six months ago. So just keep that in mind. This conversation I had with these young men happened six months ago, before ASU GSB was even on my mind at the time, and they themselves brought up the future of education and what they want to see out of education, which is that other takeaway that I'm bringing away. It's like hey, reminder to all of you innovators out there. Students have to be at the center, we have to be the focus. So we're going to leave you today with that conversation. I hope you listen all the way through because there's lots of great nuggets and some humor and really, just from the mouths of the students who are experiencing it themselves, they even, you know, talk about what it might look like for their younger selves or their younger siblings to go through a caps like experience. So that's a pretty neat thing.
Alisa Morse:So thank you all for tuning in. We will be back with you in a couple of weeks from the quote unquote studio, not necessarily on the road, but we love you all. Thank you for doing the work that you're doing. We know that you are persevering through a lot of tough things Right and you're you're solving problems, and know that you are persevering through a lot of tough things right and you're you're solving problems and getting creative and being innovative. So keep doing that thing, coramone would tell you. The tipping point is near. Trust that we're here in the middle of it. We're in the thick of it right now and it is coming and you are at the forefront of it. So enjoy the conversation and until next time, we'll see you later.
Liam:So enjoy the conversation and until next time. We'll see you later so.
Johnathan:I'm Liam. I'm from Brookfield East and right now we're doing a launch at Brookfield Central.
Max:My name is Jonathan. I'm also from Brookfield East.
Alisa Morse:My name is Maxers and I also go to Brookfield East Cool. So thanks guys for sitting here and talking to me, because so I've been talking to you for what? Two minutes now and you've already asked some really cool questions and shown me a really great project. One of you has done launch before right, so you've been. This is your second year in it. Let's start there real quick. Can you tell me a little bit about what that launch experience was like last semester?
Max:I feel like it was completely different from every other launch or every other experience I had, and it feels probably to more something similar that you would experience in a technical college, and I feel like this is great, because I actually plan on going to a technical college. So I feel like this is just a really good intro to help me introduce.
Alisa Morse:Cool. So what kind of skills do you feel like you've learned and this goes for all of you like in a week and a half, what skills have you learned so?
Johnathan:far. I think this classroom really branches out from the traditional idea of having a packet taking notes, sitting down and listening the entire period. It makes it feel more collaborative and I'm more engaged with the students around me and sure, in traditional schooling they like to turn and talk, do partner groups, but it just feels very um rinse and repeat the style of school that we're always doing. I definitely plan on taking another launch course because, um, it keeps me engaged more than any other class.
Alisa Morse:That's awesome, awesome, how about?
Liam:you. So, like I don't know, like for me, I've always like seen school as kind of like a loop, like you're kind of just doing the same thing every day but you may be learning something new. But when you're doing launch or like these launch, courses kind of bring more of like a creative thinking and like idea iteration, where you're kind of like coming up with your own ideas, testing them, and you're like learning hands-on more than like learning from stuff that people have already learned. You know what I mean?
Alisa Morse:Yeah, and how about you? What's the most impactful skill you think you learned last year?
Max:Personally, I think the most impactful skill is problem solving, but also the fact that I feel like in a lot of like my normal classes, I like zone out and I have a trouble focusing, but here I'm always in focus because this is relevant to what I want to do in life and I feel like this this is completely different from a normal classroom experience and you're not just giving stuff, you have to figure it out. I like that aspect.
Alisa Morse:Very cool, okay, so I also want to say that within those first two minutes of us talking, you all started to ask me hey, have you ever thought about taking launch to younger students? Which gets me really excited and gets me like going, because it is something we thought about for a while at the CAPS network about how do we bring this experience to younger people. But then you also have some really cool insight as to how we could do that or what the impact might be, so you mind sharing your thoughts on that?
Liam:yeah, I mean, I feel like school for a long time has kind of just been like like what it started as training people to be factory workers, training people to just do the same thing over and over again. But, like with launch, you're kind of like learning to be creative and like it's preparing you more for the real world of today rather than the real world of like 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
Johnathan:I think that the different style and structure of launch like Max said, there's a lot of problem solving done. I think a lot of school is leading you to an answer Like I'll get like a fill in the blank packet and I read the thing thing. I know what answer I'm trying to get here there is no right answer.
Johnathan:I can come up with my own ideas and iterations and um present them and if I'm wrong and it doesn't work, there's no issue there and I can always go back and try again. And it's that style, like liam said, really does prepare me for the future more than a packet.
Liam:I really hate packets. We are bringing it in like this Fair, like why wouldn't you just bring it in earlier? What's the difference, or what's the?
Johnathan:drawback from that? The only thing I don't like about Launch is the fact that I didn't have it earlier. Yeah.
Max:Same here, good to know Personally.
Max:I feel like the education system has been like relatively the same. It's always the same, but the job world is always. It's always expanding, it's always different and I feel like school is somewhat still effective so that, but it's more of a roundabout way. But here in launch you get to learn about how this career operates, or how this field operates, and you get a feel that this is what you really want to do, because if you're late in college and then you start your first internship, it might be too late to change your career. But here, if you're not happy with something, you have the chance to explore and figure out what you want to do with your life and what you want to do and something that makes you happy.
Alisa Morse:So yeah, um, you guys are awesome. This is is great. Sorry, continue.
Johnathan:Not only that, but introducing it to younger students, introducing them to a new style of education, is, I think, the most important time. Again, I wish I would have had this as an eighth grade or a freshman even younger than that, because then I'm getting introduced to new ways of thinking they're already going to do this in like other countries, though.
Liam:It's like a form of launch. It's like basic education, like most other European countries, where you pick a field once you're in, like eighth grade, and then you learn about that field throughout your high school career rather than waiting until you're in college.
Johnathan:This has like been observed to be effective in other countries as well. Finland, I think, has the most effective education system. They do something similar to this, so I think this evolution of education is really important.
Alisa Morse:You're blowing my mind here about how aware you all are of the education system as a whole, which is really cool, but can you put yourselves back in eighth grade? Imagine yourself being back in eighth grade and somebody bringing an experience like Launch to you. What difference do you think it would have made for you as a senior? Where do you think you'd be now if you had this? I?
Liam:would have been more excited and I would have known where I want to go more, because, like when you're, when you're doing stuff at school, right you're kind of just learning what they want you to learn and you're not learning what you want to learn. And I feel like when you learn what you want to learn, then you gain a better understanding of who you are and where you want to go, gain a better understanding of who you are and where you want to go in.
Johnathan:Um, in my eighth grade, I found myself asking the question um, when am I ever going to use this in real life? A lot, and I think launch introducing you to these careers and um other like pathways in life. It answers that question. You know, um, oh, pre-algebra, what was it? Pre-doubt graduate? You're supposed to learn in the fifth grade you're an accelerated math
Johnathan:yeah, oh, but um, I think that all these math courses that I now take, um, I could have been taking a lot earlier because I know that I was going to need those classes for the career that I wanted to go into.
Max:And to piggyback off what he said, I feel like with the launch experience, if I had it back in eighth grade I mean I did have an internship with my school district and I feel like more people would have like an internship to getting like a job because I know a lot of people work but I feel like if they could do something like an internship in high school like, for example, tech field great, you work at a company and as a high school student doing this, and that I feel like that would be more introducing, and launch teaches you all this pre-professional skills. So that'd just be great to have it in eighth grade so you can have a certain life.
Liam:Great to have it in eighth grade so you can have a certain life. I really appreciate how Launch brings the core classes into the field that you're doing. A Launch for Like this is like English, but it's like English built into how you would use it in the engineering field, so you're not like just reading a book about Romeo and Juliet, you're reading like a book about what was it like design or like iteration, that's those kind of things. I think that that's really helpful and useful.
Johnathan:Reading and writing is important, but not if it's just by itself. It's not as effective if it's just purely writing. I want to be introduced to the ways that I can use writing. I'm more motivated to use writing, you know, and I thought what Max said was really interesting, because I've been trying to get an internship with engineering companies for forever, because I want to go the college route, and putting that on an application or a transcript is huge. It's really big to have an internship and I think the fact that this, that Launch, brings those internships and those company partnerships is really good.
Max:It's really interesting and also makes connections, which allows you to even land, even if you work with them in a project, in Launch. It could be the home of your future job and you have those connections that you can retain through high school and college and beyond. And that's great because you know, I feel, feel like maybe without launch you'd have to start from the bottom, but at least with the launch program you have some kind of step store besides a college experience and a high school diploma just another, just another like random thought before we have to go I was gonna say we're running dead on time, so I want to make sure you get out of here.
Liam:I feel like if we introduce launch at a younger age, just like how I said earlier, is because we get a better understanding of what they want to do and then you can land internships with the companies that you work with and maybe eventually that would help kids who can't afford college not need to go to college as much because they're already in there with the companies and the fields that they want to work in.
Max:And even possibly have some kind of deal where you could work with a company and also they could pay for part of your education or even fund your education as a whole. So you can continue to work with them because they will see you as a, as a prospect and really smart and in a valuable way.
Alisa Morse:It's true? Yeah, absolutely Well, thank you guys so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time. I am excited to hear about what the rest of the semester is like for you all.
Johnathan:So I'll stay in touch. I'll come back and check in.
Alisa Morse:Cool, thank you.